Design Sojourn | Strategic Industrial Design Blog

Just to clarify: Technorati is not taking punitive measures against 2000 Blogger participants. What was announced was simply an adjustment to our indexing to filter out copy-and-pasted sets of links since our ranking is premised on links that are more conventional social gestures such as replies and citations. There is certainly a good deal of FUD being posted elsewhere about elitism, coercion, and so forth but given what was actually announced, I hope you’ll see through the subterfuge and feel assured that there’s no heavy hand to be scared of. We’re here to serve you and help you make your voice heard, we’re listening.
best regards,
-Ian

Hi Ian,

First off thanks for stopping by and leaving these comments. It’s an important gesture as it shows Technorati does take care and looks out for the little guys like myself.

I really apprecieate you dropping by and if I could, I would give you a big hug of relief!

“Blog meme participants all get scared and run for the hills”

- I beg to differ to that collective noun ‘ALL’ get scared? I didn’t get scared and I’m staying put for plain reason that I joined it for FUN. Not what it turned out to be.

I’m seething with anger at people who are too narrow minded, thinking they rule the blogosphere. These are people who are into ranks and complain to Google and Technorati. Maybe they want my share, I’ll gladly give.

Reading your reason, I understand. But don’t generalise that EVERYONE’s scared. I’m not one to hide or run. This is only blogging.

Cheers!

“However the negative fallout of such lists only highlight the stupidity of blog ranking systems and the idea of blog popularity based on such rankings.”

Was wondering when you’d figure this out (though I’d use the term “questionality” in place of “stupidity”). I’ve yet to come across a system that can’t be gamed: reputation systems, per-click based advertising, blog rankings, election systems… whatever. Where there’s opportunity to take advantage of a system for personal gain, there’ll be a crowd of people in line to take a crack at it.

Rather than worrying about rankings and Technorati standings, why not join in on the OHL discussion ( http://technocrat.net/d/2007/2/5/14355 ). That affects Industrial Designers and is potentially an important effort. Right now it appears to be mostly electrical engineers and hardware component people, but it really goes far beyond those things. And besides, you might find that in the end your Reputation standing goes up (and maybe your karmic points as well).

Isn’t this whole thing being blown way out of proportion? What’s the point of our Technorati ranking in the first place?

“Isn’t this whole thing being blown way out of proportion? What’s the point of our Technorati ranking in the first place?”

Money, of course.

I’m with ipanema on this…i’m not the least bit scared and i’m not even removing the code…that high drama bit about “putatative measures” is hilarious. The self appointed authority is granting us clemency (in a virtual realm no less) for not following their rules for posting on our personal sites that we pay for and work on and expects thanks for it. It’s madness.

omigod, I’m spouting Bushisms. Let’s correct this now. ““questionalityâ€Â? should be “validity”.

Hi Guys,

Fantastic discussion here. I wish I had more comments on my blog like this. I’ll now give some replys individually.

@ipanema, perhaps I over generalized, and it old saying holds true, the people who shout the loudest often get heard. Most of the buzz I have been hearing are people quitting as well as emails to me asking to be removed from the link lists! So apologies. But you are right on one thing, the top bloggers are out right defending their position. I don’t blame them, as csven mentioned its all about money. 6 figure as some claim. They refuse to link to anyone beneath their standing, why? Because of the way Google judges site rankings vs link popularity. If all the top people get together, then its a very high target to break.

I see the Z-list and such blog memes as a wake up call to the top tier bloggers. It shakes up the system, and if they don’t keep up their game, they will get owned. Not only is it lonely at the top, but you always have to look behind you.

@csven, you are right and I knew it all along. But I played along just to see how it turned out. And well I think I got out just at the right time. Hey perhaps its that stock-market player in me? Anyways I’ll take a look at this open source discussion as it seems interesting. And yes blogging has everything to do about Karma. Seen that TV show about this guy making up for his past wrongs as karma is kicking is behind? Love it and I believe in it. What goes around, comes around, and with blogging and the Internet its a whole lot faster. The top tier people are having it coming to them due to a large part of sheer vanity.

@Dawud, fantastic write up, and yes its got a lot to do about marketing. Nice marketing lesson to everyone involved.

@ellamichelle , thanks for stopping by, and highlight an interesting point, the web is organic, and even with systems and rules, people will still find a way and break out of it.

FYI, plenty of us are staying put. We’re not running to the hills. Instead, we took the project to it’s next logical step and we’re in the process of creating a communal blog derived from the 2000 Bloggers. You can go see it at http://www.2kbloggers.com
Take care,
Elaine

Yup, I’ve actually linked up to that site in my original post, and btw I’m still on the list and have not asked to be removed.

Oh also I’m not sure if you know, Technorati has already been moderating the links, more than a third of incoming links to my blog, are not being registered by Technorati. Including all links from 2kbloggers.

So nothing to be worried or concerned about lets keep the community alive, and as I mentioned in my post, the true spirit of this endevour.

Thanks for your response. I know how it is to be on top. So is this a confirmation that those who run to Google and Technorati are from the top tiers? :)

Ha! Good, I’m nowhere in the ranks of Google and Technorati. I am my own self. Ah, pity those who blog for money. Whether you earn BILLIONS, I dont give a d**n. For them to SUPPRESS how people act on the internet to keep their money? Who are they to do that? I hope they can sleep for running to Big Daddy Google and Big Mommy Technorati and reporting gremlins on the rise. Shame on them.

By the way, if they need my humble Technorati ranking, I’ll gladly distribute it. Pity them ya know. :)

Peace!

Ipanema, WELL SAID! Hang in there and please keep intouch!

We should all remember that while the blog ranking systems out there facilitate the current situation, they aren’t *responsible* for it. We are. Bloggers.

From my admittedly pedestrian understanding, one way we facilitate this situation is through the mismanagement of blogrolls. I don’t keep a large, static blogroll on my site for the simple reason that afaik it helps create what we see: a hierarchy of ad revenue-generating sites that may or may not be frequented by bloggers… or readers. To my knowledge, Technorati doesn’t track readers, it tracks simple URL-based links - including the one’s that many people first add to their blogroll when they start blogging (usually the *cool* sites like boingboing) but never bother to remove (perhaps because they want to *look* like they read the *cool* blogs even if they don’t).

Technorati claims that the links they collect allow them to know “Who’s saying what. Right now.” only that isn’t quite true if they’re counting worthless, unused links in a blogroll. Now imagine how influential a bunch of unused but counted links can be when aggregated across millions of blogs?

Consequently, if people want to start shaking up the system, then I believe they should put in the effort. Don’t keep links in a blogroll on your site if you don’t use them. Clean it up. And keep it short. No one needs a blogroll with dozens upon dozens of links in it. Put those in your browser favorites/bookmarks and only link to those you visit frequently. If you want to *promote* a blog that isn’t a regular stop, then consider a blog entry where you show that you’ve taken some time to digest their content and consider it worth discussing and promoting (and use the trackback).

If people aren’t going to use these tools appropriately and turn them into unwitting promotional vehicles, we’ll continue to have a gamed system. So let’s not jump too quickly on the blog ranking systems. There’s enough blame to go around.

I cannot say that I blame you for being concerned with being blacklisted from Google and I agree that it got out of control when Tino got people to put up the entire set of links on their own site. I was one of the 300 that Tino added before others begun to sign up and the entire thing has turned out to be a huge headache trying to get removed from. I wish the project luck.

@csven,
You have made some pretty valid points. I’ve seen many blog rolls that are just lists of top blogs either as an address book or hoping to get link backs. But I have also seen blog rolls, including mine, which are links to people that they know. Kinda like a blog address book. I for one refuse to link to the top blogs, Ill explain a little more at the bottom.

Actually Tecnorati does track readers to a blog. Not only does it track blogrolls or links on your sidebar, it also tracks links in your main posts AND links like your website you have entered when you left a comment here. Thus they do track what people are saying.

Somehow the engine is able to distinguish between links in a blogroll or sidebar that is permanent, and links in your post or comments that gets archived.

I guess (and this is guessing here) that’s why if you look at your technorati rank its a number derived from (xxx links from yyy blogs). Of which the “xxx links� are probably from posts and comments you created and “yyy blogs� from the blog rolls.

You are right to say that bloggers unknowingly perpetuate this by putting the top blogs on their blogroll, because they heard you can get a lot of traffic if these top blogs link back. This is stupid because these top blogs will NOT link back because they know how the system works. What you would have done is just added a notch into the “yyy blogs” part, and only succeeded in raising their Technorati ranking, as the ranking is based more heavily on the blogs linking rather than comments. And like any ranking system, you cant have a joint position, there can only be one number 1 and one number 2 etc…

@rose,
Thanks for stopping by and leaving your comments. Please keep intouch.

“Actually Tecnorati does track readers to a blog.”

To my knowledge Technorati doesn’t track visitors. It tracks links. Nothing more.

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“Not only does it track blogrolls or links on your sidebar, it also tracks links in your main posts AND links like your website you have entered when you left a comment here. Thus they do track what people are saying.”

Tracking links is *not* tracking “what people are saying”. Technorati only logs the blog entry, not the conversation - the “what” - that’s carried on comments.

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“Somehow the engine is able to distinguish between links in a blogroll or sidebar that is permanent, and links in your post or comments that gets archived.”

Actually, unless things have changed, Technorati still favors front page links and thus blogrolls have an advantage over blog entries. You might find this interesting: (PDF) edit: dead link removed.
Be sure to read Note 6. By using the “more” tag, you’re not only moving content off the front page, your making it inaccessible to Technorati. Thus any links after that tag aren’t counted. Again, only if this hasn’t changed, say, in the past year or so. I’ve not bothered to pay attention (and besides, I don’t use the “more” tag until I condense an entry; usually about a week after posting which is when I move it off the first page).

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“I guess (and this is guessing here) that’s why if you look at your technorati rank its a number derived from (xxx links from yyy blogs). Of which the “xxx linksâ€Â? are probably from posts and comments you created and “yyy blogsâ€Â? from the blog rolls.”

I don’t believe that’s how Technorati works. See this page for an explanation: http://technorati.com/weblog/2006/10/127.html

Hi csven,

Always a good discussion.

Tracking links is *not* tracking “what people are saying�. Technorati only logs the blog entry, not the conversation - the “what� - that’s carried on comments.

Well I supposed you are right, but I saw this as a technicality. The assumption here is people who talk more about the issue, will leave their website as a trackback. Unless you are including the commenters that talk but do not link back to your site, or comment anonymously.

Thanks for the Technorati link explanation. Good to know that it’s considered only for the past 180 days. Thus such memes will eventually drop off the system.

BTW that PDF link did not work? I’m interested in reading point 6. However the use of the “more” tag was a decision I made early in my blog template design, as this is a matter of compromise between usability and technology. I went with usability.

Actually the real secret in successful blogging, to me that is, is not the rank but how many people that are on your RSS feed readers.

“Always a good discussion. … The assumption here is people who talk more about the issue, will leave their website as a trackback.”

Note that I’ve not left any trackbacks. This “good discussion” is not being documented by Technorati.

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“BTW that PDF link did not work?”

Wish I could preview a comment so I could test code. If I could, I would. In any event, this should do (but it’ll be copy and paste): napsterization.org/stories/archives/BlogServiceComparison.pdf

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“However the use of the “moreâ€Â? tag was a decision I made early in my blog template design, as this is a matter of compromise between usability and technology. I went with technology.”

I understand. However, that’s besides the point. The issue remains (until someone can show that Technorati doesn’t scrape just the front page): links in blog posts that come after the fold don’t count in Technorati’s blog ranking, and blogrolls (even old dead ones) always get counted because they’re on the front page.

My own experience has been worse, actually. I’ve written a few entries that have had the key words and associated link later in the post; after the first paragraph. When I’ve done a search on the keywords, my post doesn’t show up in Technorati. I don’t know why. And I don’t think that’s always the case. But it *has* happened. And I’ve had other issues with Technorati (like having my blog simply not tracked for months even though the code was fine; a problem *many* people have experienced). In the end, what I do is just what I do. I didn’t develop my own habit of usually - not always - using the “more” tag as an edit for page 2+ entries. I simply responded to people complaining.

And, btw, I’ve just changed how my feed is shown to see if people still complain about me showing the whole post (recall that I stopped feeds for almost a year and then started up fresh… with the full entry). So I just experiment. And if people get angry, I don’t really care. I’m not trying to be a “successful” blogger. I do it for my own enjoyment… with an eye toward developing a reputation.

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“Actually the real secret in successful blogging, to me that is, is not the rank but how many people that are on your RSS feed readers.”

I disagree. I have some feeds that just collect. After I’ve ignored them long enough and the entries pile up, I sometimes hit the thing and back out just to reset it. Someone somewhere probably thinks I read all those things and thus mistakenly believe the blog is even more “successful”.

Here’s another way to measure success: how much money have you made from jobs that came to you via your blog (or maybe in your case from sales)? Most of last year I spent working on retainer for one company. They hired me because of what they’d read in my blog. I didn’t go looking for it, but the income I got from that project was probably more than many top Technorati blogs receive from their ad revenue which is their *only* income. I’d say that I outranked them in the one way most people think it counts: money.

correction: “to see if people still complain about me NOT showing the whole post”

Note that I’ve not left any trackbacks. This “good discussion� is not being documented by Technorati.

Well it is! If you look at your name on the left of your post comment, its a link back to your website is it not?

Correction what I mean when I use the “more” tag, we between usability and technology i picked usability.

I had the same experiences with technorati. Ocassionally their system has problems with links all over the place not tracked, or the system just goes down. Well I cant complain as its a free service and they do track 55 million blogs.

Quite true on the comment about feeds, I have the same problem and just reciently deleted all the feeds I have not read in the lase 6th months!

Yes I supposed at the end of the day is how you defind success, and congrats on your retainer.

“Well it is! If you look at your name on the left of your post comment, its a link back to your website is it not?”

No. It isn’t a discussion being documented by Technorati.

First off, it isn’t a “trackback”. There’s no response to this blog entry on the other side. It’s nothing more than a link to my blog’s front page.

Second, Technorati *isn’t* scraping that link because it’s not on the front page here. So even if it *were* linking back to a response (part of the discussion, or “conversation” as Technorati defines it), there’d still be no documentation of this conversation.

In addition, it isn’t being added to my Technorati ranking (nor should it be). So basically its only use is for your visitors… and their use of it is *not* recorded by Technorati.

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“Well I cant complain as its a free service and they do track 55 million blogs.”

Actually, you could complain. While it’s a “free” service, it’s a business that’s making money off of your labor (you might remember Regine’s problems last year - http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/008634.php

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“I have the same problem and just reciently deleted all the feeds I have not read in the lase 6th months!”

hahaha. All-you-can-eat can be difficult to digest.

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“congrats on your retainer”

Thanks. But that ended on 01 Jan (and I declined another project - too many hours/week). Now on to other things.

[…] issued any kind of penalty to the participants in the 2000 Bloggers meme, as I just read over on Design Sojourn in a comment by Ian Kallen of Technorati. Just to clarify: Technorati is not taking punitive […]